CyberCall – June 8th, 2020

So we are live. Welcome everyone. Gary, can we get a Hey yo. Hey. Awesome. Hey, welcome everybody. Thanks for tuning in and joining. We got a bunch of people coming on in. Um, Gary, I'm taking a cue from you that less is more. So what I mean by that this week is we actually have the opportunity to really thing, have this thing done at the bottom of the hour. And actually 30 minutes. Let's see if we can, we can accomplish, accomplish just that Your track record's. Not that great, Andrew.

Very true. So I just got a few quick things, Gary, and then, um, we'll kick it into gear. We hope, you know, I had the agenda so that we would have Chris Laer come on. Uh, he's dealing with some interesting things going on with the RMM, so I'm hoping he's here. My gut is he got pulled into some IR case and he's just bunkered down 'cause uh, he's MIA at the moment. But, um, Kyle said he's got some interesting things he can share with us, Gary, and then, um, we'll, we'll cut into yours.

Um, we've got some real special guests today. Very grateful that, um, Sergey Mka from IBM's MA three sixties here. We've had a lot of requests around MDM, uh, and security. Um, he's dealt with quite a bit post covid around, uh, mobile devices. So I'm really excited to bring him on. And then we have, um, the founder and CTO of a, a company that I think we're gonna hear a lot more about in the MSP space, if you haven't heard of them already. Company called Cloud Oak.

Um, they do business process automation. And they are, uh, when we talk about, you know, developing an incident response plan or business continuity plans, executing those plans, and then literally making sure that all of the pieces and communication get executed, that is precisely what they do. So that being said, I just have two things to put in chat. I'm cutting in and out. Gloria, sorry about that. Gary, am I cutting in and out on? No, I'm hearing you Good, Andrew, you keep it going.

Now he is. Nah, that's what we get for saying, did you do that on purpose? Did you mute yourself on purpose? I think he did. He was like, I accidentally hit the mute. My So professional. Okay, so gots a few, just a quick few quick announcements. Two things in chat and I'm done. First thing you'll notice I'm putting in a link for Cisco's cybersecurity tapas event. Um, this was gonna be a Cisco partner only thing, but Kyle and Gary Strong armed. No, I'm kidding.

They didn't do anything, but Cisco was kind enough to open it up to everybody. It does have a seating capacity. That's not a, a sales thing. There's not, there's nothing being sold. So I would encourage you, um, it's two days, three sessions a day. Kyle and Gary are gonna be there. Gary's gonna be doing, again, packaging and pricing in around security. Um, and then Kyle is doing several sessions as well. Um, so I, that was point number one. Point number two.

Um, I just wanted to share a article that I found on the top 10 things you can do to Secure Office 365. It was actually written in 19, but it was a really, uh, I, you know, I ran up by some of the folks that I, um, respect most in this, uh, industry and they thought it was a really good top 10. And what's even better is Chris Laer has decided to join us. Um, he's gotten out of a bunker somewhere. Uh, they've let him out. Um, Chris, I don't see you there. Bear with me guys.

Um, don't see you, uh, one, don't see you live. Chris, if you can hear me, bear with me, guys. Uh, is that right link? Uh, it should be the right link. Ryan, can you check and let me know? It should be Ryan Hernan. Um, you should be able to, uh, just register Chris. So Andrew, while you're doing, hi Gary, can you kick it off while, Yeah, yeah, let's get started.

So one of the things we've been talking about right over the past weeks is, uh, I, I've been staying with this topic of operationalizing security. And so for, for MSPs to bring, you know, you know, additional, you know, reduce security risk for their customers, they have to operationalize. And that means, hey, what are the tools? What are the third parties? What are the processes? Um, and then what's the roles and accountability? How much time does all of that take?

'cause we gotta be able to go and in some form, whether it's, you know, a monthly fee baked into our offering a one time, however we charge, we have to be able to package that in a way where we can afford over time to do these things. Now, um, today we're gonna talk a little about incident response, but it's the same thing, preparedness around incident response. Again, it it's the same. We wanna follow the same playbook. So, hey, we have to do tabletops.

We have to document our process, we have to revisit 'em, we have to train our people. All of that takes time, effort, and it has to get baked in. If it doesn't, we end up doing it once we do a project, one quarter for incident response. And because it's not baked into our margins, we don't have roles, we don't have process to find, you know, all what we have is an incident response plan for ourselves or our customer in six months. That's six months old.

And it might as well be never have done it right at that point. And so Kyle, we, we've been talking back and forth about, hey, you have to find out, you have to find that even part, like SMBs can't maybe afford everything. So where do we draw that line, right? So that we feel like we're being diligent for ourselves and our customers, and still can do it in a profitable way. I know there's these age old adages about like, knowing thyself. It applies to security, it applies to business.

But sometimes these age old adages are old because they're accurate. For instance, you know, um, we talked previously on another cyber call about zero trust, but zero trust. To what level, how much, you know, did you know we can't within the s and b drop a $2 million security budget like a Fortune 500, right? So we gotta apply it to the level that matters to our customers, to at a level they're willing to pay for. Yeah. So I think you're hitting the nail on the head with this.

Uh, at the same time, the frequency, you know, you can't constantly, I mean, you've got to constantly reassess, but you know, to a point you can't spend every waking hour of the day saying, is my incident response good enough? And talking about incident response, we've, we've got Chris Lair looking great with the predator crew behind him. Um, so it looks like, uh, you know, it's good timing for sure. Yeah, absolutely.

So, I'll, I'll close on this and we'll, we'll, we'll go to Chris, but, um, you think about where the enterprise was, right? Uh, Andrew, um, there, there you go back some number of years. There wasn't much of a security department. Now in many organizations, it's, you know, the lion's share, right? Of, of, of headcount and process. That's how important it is.

And so when you think about it, and you think about the average MSP, they're taking care of, if you look at all their customers, a mid-market enterprise type scenario, right? Um, but they don't have the same budget, same role, same process. So there's, we gotta keep closing that gap and we have to do it within our business model. It's not just we have to go to our customers for budget rather than going to a board for budget that, that, that wes often talks about. Sure.

No, very, very good point. Chris. Um, I, I, two, two things. One, I think I'm nauseous now that you've gone back and forth on the screen so many times. Um, but, um, question again, people are, are, um, are, uh, mentioning the, uh, audio again. Quick check. Uh, Kyle, you can hear me okay, Gary? We're Doing okay. Sounds like certain browsers are running into some, uh, caching issues. I pasted a link in the Crowdcast, but, uh, us debating it live. I don't, I don't know if it does any Yeah, no.

Worst case scenario. We'll have an awesome playback for everybody. Fair, fair enough. Chris, you keep going back and forth. Is that, are can you, are you there? I'm here, but I keep seeing myself blink off and on. Yeah. Huh. Okay. Um, we Hear you. We hear you, Chris, But you don't see me very well. Yeah, it's really delayed. Okay, let's do this. Um, Chris, you can, why don't you kick things off.

You and I are speaking the other day, um, and you're seeing some, I know it's, everybody's gonna be shocked, but, uh, you, you're seeing some new variants in RMM attacks and, and you're seeing some interesting things in terms of what the, uh, bad guys are doing in terms of backups and things of that nature. Is that a fair kind of way to kick things off to you? Yeah, that's a fair way. Thanks. Yeah, I mean, so we've known about these RMM attacks for a long time.

Uh, but they've usually been centered around, you know, one, maybe two groups at most. And, um, you know, over the last few months, we start to see some, some indications where other people are, uh, you know, seeing the blood in the water and, and starting to attack. And so, um, and we're seeing smaller groups seem to be involved. Now, that doesn't take away from the, uh, the fact that they're really good at what they do.

They may be smaller in nature, uh, but they are very thorough in what they do. So one of, you know, a couple of the things that we see that continue to occur is when they do get in, they, they go after your backups right away. And they're very successful at finding your backups and destroying them. Uh, I know a lot of times when we're working with the MSPs, uh, you know, even lately they said they just have to have some inside information on us.

Some somebody has to be telling them what, what this is. There's no way they can find it that, that fast. And they do find it that fast. I mean, I mean, we're all IT people and we know where it's not hard to find a backup agent or, or something that's gonna give you some type of direction as far as, uh, where to look for the backups and how to destroy them. And most of the time, most of the backups are well-known products.

And so either they're gonna get to the backup software and, and destroy it that way, or they're gonna get to the storage level and destroy it that way. Whether that means they're formatting stuff or whatever.

Uh, we have a case right now where the client, this wasn't an MSP case, but as the client used Quest, and, uh, there was some functionality within Quest, quest that if the backups got deleted, that there was some, I guess there was some feature functionality in there to restore from, from that deletion and get them, and, and they went down that path and spent a couple of days on doing so and ended up coming back empty. So we can't underscore the need for backups.

But in the end, what these RMM attacks, I mean, whether they're a credential compromise or a, a vulnerability, uh, it doesn't matter that the bad guys are getting in and they may use one or two MSPs as a Guinea pig. Uh, but once they got those down, they create some automation on their end, and the next MSPs they hit is very well automated and they can get things done even more quickly.

And so, um, there have been cases recently where even the MSP was even to detect that they were in there, but by the, I mean, and very quickly, but even by the time they were able to get in there and respond, it was too late. Um, and so o we also have seen indications where they're trying to gather more intelligence around the rms.

So, uh, just to even, you know, I've talked about this before about them educating themselves, but they're even going beyond, um, just your simple, you know, watching A RMM course online. Uh, they're really getting involved in and doing some stuff. And in recent cases we're, we're actually seeing them get what they need, uh, encrypting clients and then destroying the RMM. So leaving the, uh, the MSP somewhat paralyzed on what they can do. And so it sucks.

Let's just say you're an MSP and they've destroyed your backups and they've destroyed your RMM and your RMM has years worth of scripts and other stuff that you have built in there, and you have to recreate it from scratch. Uh, that sucks because there is no paying the ransom to get that stuff back. So really all this background that I'm telling you comes down to, I keep hearing, you know, well, when are the vendors are going, when are the vendors gonna fix this?

When are they going to address that? And we can't solve for that problem. I mean, we can make us think about it, we can wave our arms, we can do all those types of things, but in the end, we're gonna have to take control and do some things on our own, uh, to get in front of this.

And so, you know, one of the things that, you know, usually people will push back and throw back on is the fact that we need to, um, we should try to see how much we can lock our RMM based on our clients by IP address at the firewall. And so people are like, oh, that's terrible. We can't do that. You know, we have all these roaming PCs and all that type of stuff. And, uh, you know, maybe there's an MSP on here, I can't remember their name.

I've been in a conversation in the past where though it may not be perfect, it was better than any solution that I've heard, is they use dynamic DNS to handle those roaming computers out there. Uh, but, but whatever the case may be is you have to really start weighing the, the, the risk versus the rewards. And so you have to look at things from, Hey, if I lock it down by IP address, does that completely mitigate the issue? No. But does it mitigate it a lot?

And can I handle the other clients that aren't gonna connect because I don't have their ips in there? Can I handle them? Whether that means forcing them to VPN or manually sending out some notification that says, please, VPN, so we can have contact with our RMM, but in, in the end, you have to do something. And that may even be, and I don't have that exact solution for you today, but that may be putting a web application firewall is yet another layer in there.

I mean, I've talked about how I, I come from the banking world and in the banking world, we had online banking servers that we hosted our own, and we had large commercial clients that did wire transfers and a CH and the millions and millions of dollars. And we did not truly and completely we're not, we're not, we weren't co upon the online banking software provider that was insane.

We did all of our other stuff from a security perspective and, and, and bringing in a web application firewall and bringing in experts, uh, to handle that type of stuff. So, you know, I mean, is there a wave of the magic wand to solve this problem for you? No, but I think you're gonna need to really think hard about this concept that your arm m needs to be wide open to talk to these disparate endpoints out there.

Um, you really gotta think about security and thinking about, you know, remediating that risk with locking it down in other ways. And that may be turning off certain features to your client base in order to save you and save them from an attack. Chris, let me uh, open it up to Kyle and Gary was writing down some things, but Kyle, you, you first, I was, uh, fever feverishly taking notes and trying to make this more, you know, applicable for our audience base.

Sometimes you have to show it instead of telling it. So, um, we're running into the same type of thing that Chris is, is talking about where one too many RMMs, not enough tweaking, not enough thinking about whether it's the business, the attack service, all those things. And you could hear the, you know, the somber tone that Chris is sharing, that this is something that, it's not exciting, it's not sexy, but it's something super important we have to do.

So I've done all I could do to redact here, but I want to show for everybody in the audience. I just gave a picture in the, uh, or a link to a picture in the chat. And this is the type of things that we see. For instance, in this case, uh, this was, you know, a half dozen RMM or remote access tools on one system. So much so we thought this was a test environment. Um, but that's the type of cleaning up and not necessarily knowing thyself that I mentioned earlier.

And you hear about this stuff, by the way, in accounting, multiple bills you didn't know about that you weren't paying for. Um, you know, if you have doctor's offices, they have insurance carriers and back bills they haven't taken care of. But so much I wanna share, this was a half dozen MSPs who had rolled through this client's network leaving RMM tools behind. So sometimes it's just not cleaning up the hygiene that's behind you. And this goes way more than just the RMM as Chris was sharing.

The next thing that I was considering whether or not to share, and this is something that, uh, I will caveat here, that the link I'm going to share with you is going to make your browser say, warning, this is dangerous because this is a hacker's website. Um, but you know, we talk about these ransomware actors that get in, whether it's through the RMM tool and Maze is one that we've talked about multiple times. Maze has a public news website.

There's a whole bunch of these, and I've been hesitant to share this type of stuff before, but sometimes you just gotta see it to believe it.

And if you jump into that URL that I, I shared with you, if you're willing to take the risk, which keep in mind, it's like telling you the stove is hot, you can click on that and accept the risk, and it will actually show you their website where they disclose people's actual collected data, who after they've gone in the network gathered your information, then they ransom you. And if you don't pay it, they disclose it. And you'll find all kinds of things on there.

Um, you know, from hydroelectric companies to people who make rotors to, sometimes you'll even find MSPs on this darn thing. Uh, where I'm going with this is Chris is hitting the nail on the head. I always try to pull it back to the 20,000 foot view instead of the geek view. And it's just, once again, to reiterate, this is an investment in yourself. So yes, RMM has always been something you could invest in.

Your bottom line is something you could invest in, and it should be a repeatable process, not just the one time a thing, you know, thing that you do. So, um, I'll leave it at that for my, uh, my 2 cents, Andrew. Awesome. Gary, I'm gonna kick it to you for a final comment.

Um, but one thing that made me think of Kyle made me think about in that first URL was again, comes back to something you preach about, obviously process, obviously that, um, you know, this is an offboarding thing and that, you know, MSPs, um, you know, unfortunately don't build in all of the, um, standards like that have to be taken care of, and it comes back to competitive advantage and price.

So, but you, you talk please, N no, I, look, I could, we could spend the whole rest of the time on this. Like this is a growing and major issue and I get to see it, right? Just like Chris does. I get to talk with these MSPs when, uh, when these kind of things have happened every week, it seems like.

And so when you think about what, what, um, what Chris is saying really tough stuff, like for an MSP, many of them don't even have the, the thought process, um, and the skill sets to make these, to make some of these changes. And even if you did, how it impacts your business model even more today where there's more roaming PCs, right? And so yeah, this is, uh, not going away. And so I think Kyle's pointing people in the right direction. What are the things we can do, right?

And how do we get approach it and then decide when we get to those hard decisions that Chris is talking about. Um, you know, we have a, a kind of a, we've gotten it down like, okay, here's where we are. How much risk are we willing balance on our business model with, with these customers and turning off certain features. It's, it's not, it's not a, you know, there's no, there's no magic wand. Yeah. Okay. Well, awesome. Great job, Chris. Hey, yeah, great job, Chris.

Kyle, can I have you go to the audience and I'll bring, 'cause I want to keep Chris on with Petrus just because I think what he's doing those that'll be really, um, a good combo. Then I'm gonna pull you back with the MDM stuff because I think that's gonna be really important for you to chime in on, if that's okay. Yeah, I'll Be chatting Away. Okay, perfect. Alright, so bring Kyle there, pet, I'm gonna bring up, uh, Petrus.

Um, so, um, we've spoken a lot over the weeks and on the different, uh, events we've done on, uh, incident response planning, tabletops again, we're gonna be doing those. Gary, um, in interest of time, uh, Petrus, I'm just gonna let you launch on in here for your five minutes. Um, but, uh, really excited to have you with us. Um, maybe just 30 seconds about, you know, a little bit of background and then jump right on in. Thanks Andrew, and thanks for having you on the call.

Um, it's, uh, very interesting to be on the session. So I've been in the IT industry for about 20 years. Um, recently we founded a company called Cloud Oak and, uh, through that, uh, which is effectively a vendor and we've built a business continuity planning and process automation tool essentially. So, uh, we found that there's a big lack for, for such a solution in the, in the industry, and we basically thought it's a good idea to, to go and put something out there.

So, I mean, today we're obviously speaking about, uh, incident response and business continuity, Dr uh, uh, those kind of topics. And, um, one quote that I found, which I thought was very good, is from Warren Buffet where he says, an idiot with a plan can be the genius without one. Um, so I mean, we, we've seen recently with Covid, and I think the one thing Covid has taught us in, in general is that everybody is simply not as prepared as, as we think.

Even the, the larger, um, organizations and government kind of entities like hospitals and so on have been caught, um, with their pants down around the ankles, uh, around having the correct PPE kind of, uh, equipment involved, the, uh, the ventilators and so forth.

Now, obviously we're not speaking about covid today, but, um, the question I think that MSPs need to ask themselves is what are they doing actively and effectively to ensure that them as an MSP and their customers are prepared for any event be being covid or, uh, a ransomware attack or, uh, just a pure disaster recovery, uh, that needs to happen. And I think there's a big perception in, in the, in the market today that, uh, most regulated companies, as an example, has something in place.

And that, uh, the, the smaller, smaller, medium sized, uh, kind of financial institutions as we've seen, um, like the insurance brokers really don't. Uh, we, we, we found that through a lot of our MSPs, um, even regulated kind of companies don't have anything in place, uh, that, that can actively help them plan and execute, um, in the case of an event occurring.

So if, if that is the case, I think lesser regulated companies almost have no, no chance to, to recover from any kind of event being, uh, a ransomware or a disaster, whatever the case may be. So what we, what we're seeing is that this has basically brought a huge opportunity for MSPs to show themselves, um, as either a thought leader or, um, the ability to provide solutions In cases like this. Um, we've seen MSPs generating a lot of monthly recurring revenue from continuity planning services.

And in today's market, I think everybody's looking for something new to, to put out there to gather other new customers or to be able to offer, uh, services that can basically set them apart from from competition. The, um, other challenges we're seeing is, particularly in the operational side of things, is that, um, there are, There there's not enough, uh, thought put in place, uh, when building a DR plan or response plan.

In other words, how do MSPs, uh, make it easier for themselves and their customers once the plan is actually in place. So I mean, it's, it's a big process going through building the plan, but once, once that plan is in place, how do you actively go out and, and run that plan effectively? What are the, the items needed to do? So, so we've come up at Cloud Oak with a bit of an acronym built around the solution we've built called the Acorn approach, which goes around automation.

So automate as much as possible within the plan communication and preferably integrated communication. So make sure you've got multiple ways of communicating to staff and the stakeholder holders during an event occurring. Then orchestration. So build in a central control module where you can effectively see what's happening during the plan. Um, go from there and have con communications go out to other customers or people involved in the plan, uh, reporting.

And I'll elaborate on that a little bit more later in the, in this, uh, but reporting becomes very important and having those four items in place basically allows you to neutralize the effects of human error, error in a well-defined plan and, and allows you to execute it effectively.

Well, Petris, what I, what I think will be, you know, just to appreciate you coming on, and Chris, you know, the reason I wanted to have you stay is, um, you know, since I've known you for years now, it's someone gets hit. Um, and you know, you, you sit there and shake your head about the lack of backup testing, the fact that they thought things were V land.

Um, just if you give us your, maybe your take on this, um, and Gary, you looked like you were writing as well, but Chris Yeah, I mean, you, you hit the nail. I mean, the number one question, especially when we're dealing with insurance claims is how long is it gonna take, you know, that the adjuster wants to know how long is it gonna take you to restore? And the they don't know.

I mean, it's very rare that someone does a full restoration type test, and it's very rare that an MSP is gonna pull that off for every one of their clients. And it's, you would think, well, at least could they have done a sampling to at least, you know, get some kind of ballpark so they can at least estimate. And the, and the fact of the matter is, it just doesn't happen. And, and that comes a, it comes up a lot when we see, when the backups are in the cloud.

And really, we know as soon as we hear, oh, all of our backups are in the cloud, we know that's gonna take a really, really, really long time to get that done. So yeah, when you're writing your plan or thinking about writing your plan, you have to prioritize things correctly in that plan.

Uh, and so, you know, that, um, 'cause 'cause we often see the other real quick is we see full image backups and so they don't even have the ability to just restore certain facets of their business to get it back up. They gotta restore the whole darn thing at one time. And so that just takes over as well. Just because I know Gary has to leave at the bottom here. Gary, let me let you chime in. Thank you as always for being here, but let, let me let you wrap up with something.

Yeah, I, I'll leave you. I, I'm listening to everything and again, running MSPs for 20 years working with MSPs every day I'm looking at it through the lens of how, what I see going on every day. And I'm thinking like, no, no one's doing those test restores, uh, Chris. And the reason they're not doing them is, um, they're out there at $150 per seat with backup included. So the average backup is eight bucks a seat.

If people make the conversion, so they're already, their margins are down then, okay, that's not doing the time and effort it takes to, to do some type of regularly scheduled partial and at least, you know, once or twice a year some type of full restore. Um, at my last MSP, we had a bunch of clients who required that, you know, it was costing 'em another five to $8,000 a year. That's how expensive it was for us to do it, right? Right.

And so when you think about it, again, we, this is what we keep running into the systemic business model of MSPs and we're gonna keep hammering that and we're gonna get people to see things in a different kind of way. 'cause we've gotta bridge that gap, right? And if we don't, we're only gonna have better intentions. And this is awesome. Like you're hearing what it's about and what happens from Chris, you know, you know, once that, once once he gets that call right after the fact. Yeah.

Really great stuff. Yeah. Thank you Petras, thank you for coming on and we'll look forward to having you back. I know we're gonna be doing something, uh, to show incident response planning when we do the tabletop. Yep. Um, I'm gonna move you over to the, um, audience and then I am going to bring up our final, Gary, I don't know if you have to run. Yeah, I, I, I gotta run. So why don't you, you can bring uh, Kyle back. Kyle back. Alright. We're gonna bring, yeah, yeah. Thanks Andrew.

You, Mary, we'll see you next week. Okay. So we're gonna bring up Sergey and then I'm gonna grab Kyle. Sergey, thank you for jumping on. How are you? Doing Well, how are you? I'm doing great. You're well, what you do. And, um, m you know, so mobile, um, BYOD has been, you know, I watch chat every week and, and, and I get emails and it has been one of the hottest requested topics out there.

Um, first off, I appreciate you coming on and, and maybe if you could again, just 30 seconds about, you know, what you do, mass 360 and I gotta believe you were somewhat busy once Covid, uh, hit to say the least. Yeah, absolutely. Andrew, thank you very much for having me. Yeah, Kyle, I'll that Banksy book, I have one right behind me. Uh, I'm a sales engineer at IBM and I focus on Master 360, as well as other security products that, uh, integrate into Master 360 and mobility.

My job is to guide large key accounts into a successful, uh, deployment of Mass 360. So sales can sell the world, but it's up to me to actually get into the room with the IT teams and discuss the infrastructure and deployment strategies and develop one and then it will be, uh, taken over by our senior engineers who guide the clients through the entire process. I do want to, I appreciate you saying that.

I do want to note though, so people out there know you did cover the ConnectWise relationship, so you are very familiar with MSPs and MSPs even though your role right now is focused on the enterprise. So everybody out there realize he is highly familiar with what we do. So let me let you continue, Sergei. Absolutely. So I mean, even though my primary goal is to work with enterprise accounts, I do work with MSPs. I have managed the, and was a technical resource for the ConnectWise relationship.

I lived in Tampa, just moved to Philadelphia. Really bad decision During the quarantine. It was not fun. Uh, but at the same time, uh, I work with a number of MSPs across the board and yes, we, we do have a successful relationship with a number of them. Um, and I really love working with MSPs because there's a lot of different use cases.

I mean, there are questions and when do you start a conversation about mobile device management or when is it worth it for your clients to actually invest in mobile device management? Um, all those questions are on the table. And, uh, today what is mobile device management? It's really unified endpoint management because my product Master 60, we don't just manage phones and tablets that run iOS and Android, we run, we also manage Windows of Mac os.

We can, uh, using the technology, those similar solutions can manage servers as well. So it is interesting. Time. Time. Excellent. So we can you give us a little bit of a insight into, you know, what things people should be considering, you know, in, in regards to, you know, MSPs? What things should they be considering? Because again, their customers, they've deployed, you know, just countless numbers of their customers into remote environments.

We know BYOD is being used to access corporate environments. You know, things that you might be able to, uh, impart upon us what you've seen and maybe the good, the bad and, and advice. Yeah. And today we know we're in such a strange time that organizations that never thought about BYOD or remote working hack were forced to pivot their business into allowing their employees to work from home.

And that's where we saw a rise in a need for our products because you have corporate data that is being accessed on mobile devices. So whether it's a company issued device or a personal device, which is even riskier, that's where we saw a big drive because as an organization, you're in the situation, you want to continue productivity, but you don't want to invest funds into providing your own devices to your employees.

So you allow them to use theirs, but at the same time that exposes your business, that exposes your corporate content. Uh, what our solutions are able to do is, in this case, a containerization. So that is a perfect use case, uh, where the user still has their personal side with their personal family contacts, emails and images, photos, but then they have a work side, it is encrypted.

So those containers usually are encrypted with 256 bit as level of encryption and they allow employees to access corporate email calendar contacts, document shares, even in interact with that corporate content without leaving that secure environment. And that way you're keeping that corporate information secure. And now we're seeing today, uh, also in the medical industry.

Uh, I personally worked with a deployment where, uh, healthcare workers were, we were issuing devices to, uh, individuals, uh, patients in quarantine as well as healthcare professionals. And the organization did not want to give them an open device. They want to lock it down to two or three or one application. One of them was like an alert application. So we need to make sure that that device is, cannot be tampered with and we need to lock it down, but at the same time still manage it remotely.

So you don't want that patient trying to figure out how to learn a tablet. They, they, they've never touched. Sure. Kyle, You had, you had a comment there? I, Yeah, sly, I'm, I'm gonna channel my inner Gary Peka since, uh, you, you're one in Philly and two, you know, uh, I, I was joking that you're talking trash about his hometown. So I'm, I'm gonna challenge your inner sales engineer here real quick.

So obviously I've got more sensitive information on this iPhone than probably my own laptop nowadays, but we know every business under the sun, uh, it's still arguing, Hey, we can't secure our old fashioned laptops and workstations and servers, let alone adding a boatload of these in the network. Um, how do you use some, uh, some feng shui or use some, uh, juujitsu against them to turn that conversation around and help educate?

'cause I've gotta imagine that something that somebody throws at you. So do you mean securing not just your phones, but also securing, kind of creating that similar security environment on a laptop? Or maybe it's just how do they prioritize budget? I mean, sometimes it, that's the stingy part of it, right? In enterprise, they're able to say, Hey, let's secure everything, right?

You got any, uh, you know, objections you could, uh, you could think of if you took a look at the votes, they're just starting to come in for the poll, but, uh, already it's 12 to two in number of votes of if they're secure in mobile devices. So the vast answer of those is no, they're not doing it. So, uh, I'm wondering if there's any tips or tricks you could say in your quick.